Category: Wellington business

In the frame: an interview Jo Williams, picture framer, art installer and recycler

Linda

Eight tonnes of recycled wood takes up a bit of room, but surprisingly not as much space as one might expect.  Jo Williams of J.W. Framing & Supply in Newtown, used a Wellington City Council Organics Diversion Fund grant to rescue the native timber when the Wellington Girls’ College auditorium was demolished.  Now Jo’s in the process of breathing new life into it.

WCL visited Jo to find out how and why she rescued eight tonnes of native timber, otherwise destined for landfill and how her framing and supply business is developing.

I’ve got three businesses going on within this space.

WCL:  Tell us a bit about what led you to setting up a picture framing business?

JW: I moved here from Hamilton.  I had a museum background and I couldn’t find work in my field.  I didn’t want to abandon that career so I decided to go out on my own.

WCL:  How did you learn the necessary skills of framing?

JW:  From working in the Waikato museum (Te Whare Taonga o Waikato) framing art works for exhibition. I got so much out of that experience.  I remember framing a Seraphine Pick watercolour and thinking “This is so cool”.  It provided me with opportunities not many people get.

WCL: When you went about setting up your business, how did you do it?  You’ve got a lot of stuff in your studio.

JW:  I’m in my fourth year of being full-time. I was two years part-time at first. I knew someone who’s father-in -law bought a retiring framer’s equipment and was going to start his own business but never did.  So I bought that stuff off him for five grand.  I got three basic pieces of equipment to set up and a little bit of stock as well.  The equipment wasn’t the greatest but it got me started.

I started in my bedroom in a flat up the road where I was living in at the time.  I then got a sliver of workshop upstairs [in the present complex]. I used the workshop for cutting frames and ferried them back to my bedroom for completion.

I worked part time while just practising for six months.

My first job was for Thumbs Up, a group of disabled artists in Petone.

Friends and neighbours supported me and it just sort of grew from there.  I moved into a bigger workshop space, then I moved into this present studio space.

I got a sign and stuck it out on the street “Open Saturdays” and work started coming in. It enabled me to go full time four years ago.

Business came very much from the Newtown community.  I have customers around the neighbourhood.

And then the website was developed.  People just google “Picture framing Wellington”. It’s nice to have an easily describable business.  It’s easy to google.

I find the best thing for me is to be open Saturday.  I’m open 10 to 3.  Anyone can walk in at that time.  If they don’t, it doesn’t matter.  I just do my admin during that time.  It sucks working weekends sometimes but that structure is the steadiest thing I have in my working week.

My working week can be all over the place so having that regular Saturday time for doing that is really good.

WCL:  Have you had to learn to cut glass as well and get equipment for doing that?

JW: You don’t actually need very much equipment for glass cutting.  You just need practice and a steady hand.  It’s all about measuring.  Measuring and accuracy – you have got to have everything accurate to like, point five of a millimetre with glass.

This stuff is all about measuring.  And I’ve been through hell.

When I was at the museum I got thrown in the deep end and had to practice and practice and practice.  I had a couple of people I could ring and one was the framer at Te Papa and I still ring him up now and go “Help!” He’s become a mentor.

That struggle though, at that time, is probably what gave me the grit I needed to do this.

WCL:  What else do you do besides framing?

JW: I hang art in people’s houses.  That’s been a great addition to the business.

WCL: Talk us through how an art hanging service works

JW:  First of all, if there’s a really heavy or large item that needs a professional to hang it.  It needs proper fittings so it doesn’t fall off the wall.  Heavy mirrors or really big paintings.  Then there’s the aesthetic side – you try to make it work in the whole room so there is a flow.
I try to make it feel calm.  And also – you hang things on two hooks so they don’t go crooked.

WCL: Besides art works what other things have you been asked to frame?

JW:  A couple of people want me to make a magnetic frame or something for their kids art and family photos so they can swap them out.  I’ve framed a few kids’ art and when they see their art trapped in behind glass and in a frame, they don’t generally like it.

So I have a vision and need to design something where you can just swap them out and easily access them and kids can do it themselves.

I have a customer whose father built a log cabin, not having done anything like that before. They want me to make something unconventional with a rustic feel.  So that’s a fun challenge.  I do like the bespoke challenges.

In the early stages those things were actually quite … you’d end up working for hours and hours and get paid next to nothing.  So you get better at saying no to things. But it’s also how you develop your skills.  There’s a fine line between getting the experience and getting paid.

WCL:  How did you work out how to charge out your services?  Did you look at what other people were charging or have you come up with a figure that works for you?

JW: I come from a community arts background and I struggled a lot with charging enough.  I think I’m there now where I’m happy with the rate I charge.

I have a rough idea of what other people charge.  It’s just sort of testing the waters and getting confidence up.

You punish yourself and think “I should have done that faster.” It should have taken two hours but actually I did it in four.  But then your confidence grows and you think “No, it takes three.  Do it in three, charge for three”.

The thing about self employment is that you don’t get to measure yourself against anyone else.  When you’re working alone you don’t really see how other people work.  In the past year or so I have worked alongside other art hangers and have learned from them.

It’s what the customers say.  If they’re happy, then that’s good.

WCL:  Do you prefer working with wood?

JW: Yeah.  The workshop upstairs is my happy place.  This whole thing is about precision but the workshop and wood is a little more forgiving.  Working with the recycled timber is great compared to working with the painted surfaces of commercial mouldings.  I definitely like working with the wood most of all out of all the processes.

WCL:  Is it mainly recycled native timbers?

JW:  Yes.  There’s just so much around and it’s getting wasted.  It’s such beautiful stuff and so much better than anything you can buy new.  If you take the time to turn it back into something beautiful.

It brings a warmth into the room.

WCL:  You applied for, and were awarded, a Wellington City Council Organic Waste Diversion Fund.  Tell us a bit about the process of applying for the grant and what have you done with the funding.

JW:  I think the funding applications opened around Christmas time.  I didn’t actually know about it and somebody brought it to my attention.  Lots of people were encouraging me to apply for it.  I had received $2000 funding the previous year from the Waste Minimisation Fund to buy a thicknesser to do the same thing I’m doing now but on a smaller scale.  It was a small step forward.

I thought “No way. I won’t get that. I’m not ready for that” but the universe was saying “Do it!  I have experience at applying for funding with some of my past jobs so I thought I’d give it a go.  The people in the Waste Min team were really supportive and I could go to them with questions and they were really helpful.  It’s a newish fund, only about three years old.

I come from an arts background where there is so much competition for funding, so I was used to doing quite tight applications.  I was amazingly lucky enough to be successful.

What have I done with the money?  Well, I bought equipment, machinery and I’m paying someone to help me get this whole thing going.  Dustin is a qualified joiner and is helping get the whole recycled timber enterprise off the ground.

I got the guillotine.  I used to cut everything with a craft knife for three years, which was ruining my arms and doing my head in.  If your ruler is out by point five of a millimetre then you end up with a rhombus. Just cutting a perfectly square rectangular piece of cardboard can be a world in itself without decent tools.  So the guillotine has been an absolute game changer.  It speeds me up a lot, helping to make the process more production oriented.  Instead of every single thing having to be done from start to finish and then you start the next one.  It’s just too slow.  I can now work in a much more efficient way.

There’s a machine upstairs, a woodworking machine that can do a whole lot of things, and there’s other machinery, like the metal detector.

WCL:  Is all this machinery available in New Zealand or have you had to import some?

JW:  It’s all New Zealand.  Some is second hand and some is new.

WCL: As a recipient of the grant what expectations are there on you, from the council, to account for how the funding is used?

JW:  I submitted a budget with my application and I have to report back with my actual spend.  My main objective was to save eight tonne of wood and that’s what they really liked.  I’ve met that objective.

WCL: Is this wood that would otherwise be destined for the landfill from demolished buildings?  How do you find out that wood is going to become available?

 JW:  All of the eight tonnes comes from Wellington Girls’ College auditorium.  There will be other buildings in the future.

I have a relationship with a demolition company.  There’s a guy, Matt Thornton, of Ceres Environmental NZ, who came here. We just happened to start talking about wood and I showed him the samples that I was using.  He said “Oh, I can get you a lot of wood” because he’s got an interest in sustainability as well.  Having worked in the demolition industry he’s seen masses of demolition timber be taken to the tip everyday.

His boss, Swaroop Gowda, kindly wrote me a letter of support for the application which formalised our arrangement. I was so stoked.

At the moment I’m still trying to figure out how to deal with it all in an efficient, productive way.  I’ve learnt so much.  When this is processed and sold then more will come in from other places.

WCL: Who is your market for eight tonnes of recycled native timber?

JW: I want to see other framers using my timber.  I’m going to wholesale the prepared timber to framers around the country.  That’s what I’m working on.  It’s a premium product.  There’s been massive learning curves because I’ve never machined any timber in my life before now.

WCL: Do most people want to leave the wood in its natural state or do they want it painted?

JW:  Most people love it as it is.  Rimu goes with pretty much everything.  Some people have had bad aesthetic experiences with rimu in the 90s, such as yellow varnish.  I have to be very careful with my design.  I also have a lot of what might be red beech (tawhai raunui) which will probably be stained as the colouring varies a lot.

I still have all those samples of commercially available mouldings there, but 80 percent of the time this is what people are choosing.  I’m looking at having six to eight of my own mouldings by the end of the year.  I’m not going to be too complicated.  The simple stuff is quite fashionable at the moment.  People want simple, box framing.  They don’t often want fancy stuff with curves and ornate gold stuff.  Having it there shows people what they don’t want.

WCL:  Have you marketed the recycled framing specifically to WGC alumni as a nostalgia thing?

JW:  I haven’t really done any marketing yet.  Alys Freeman (Business Development Manager, WGC) put something in the newsletter to the alumni before Christmas and the Council did an article to promote the fund being opened again, so I got a lot of people contacting me when that came out.  I now have a mailing list for people who want frames made with the wood from the Auditorium.

I’ll soon have some premade frames available for purchase.  There’s a lot of nostalgia attached to it.  Custom framing is prohibitive for most people so I’m trying to make some keepsake that’s affordable.

WCL:  You talked earlier about being on your own and not being able to compare yourself to what others are doing.  What other upsides and downside are there to running a small business?

JW:  It does feel really isolating sometimes.  For the first three years I was here I was living here, working here.  I was broke and it was a struggle.  I thought about quitting so many times and looked for other jobs.  But I kept going. I think the customers probably kept me going.  I meet really interesting people that I wouldn’t normally meet and I think I make friends with all of my customers.

This timber thing has got me through I think.  Everything has been saying “Do it, do it, do it” the whole time.  The path is already written and I just have to walk it.

WCL:  Like the serendipitous meeting with Matt?

JW: Yeah.  I said to someone the other day, this whole thing has been like stumbling down a corridor in the dark, not knowing what obstacles are there.  But I just keep going and it seems to be ok.

WCL:  Do you have any advice you’d like to share with anyone thinking of starting a small business of any kind?

JW:  Just persevere.  Keep going.  Keep your standards high.  Just keep going as long as you can.  It is really good being self employed.

WCL: Future plans?

JW:  I’m really interested in innovation and sustainability and would love to dive deeper into this field.  It would be amazing to be able to develop other products that can help clean up the world.

I’m hoping in future to do framing lessons.  Artists are struggling and framing is a hideous barrier for them.  I would like to be able to facilitate them being able to do it for themselves.

My passion is helping artists. 

I like variety, I like a challenge.  I like my neighbourhood and community.     

Plus I have an awesome Metal Detector if any DIY woodworkers want to come and use it!

Click here for more information on the WCC Waste Minimisation funding.

Picture framing for the first time / Bartholomew, Lee
“From total beginner to confident expert—that’s where this question-and-answer guide takes first-time frame-makers. It explains every step, from gathering the tools and selecting basic materials to choosing the right frame, assembling it, and matting the finished artwork. Here are solutions to all the problems encountered along the way, with multiple projects.” (Catalogue)

 

Picture perfect framing : making, matting, mounting, embellishing, displaying & more / DuMont, Katie
““Fundamentals are covered in some detail, complete with photographs and step-by-step illustrations. Twenty-two crafty projects feature a variety of techniques, from faux gilded to Indian quill frames…tips for arranging, hanging, and decorating with pictures. An idea gallery ready for implementation.”—Booklist.” (Catalogue)

 

How to frame your own pictures / Warren, Jane
“This visually appealing book introduces readers with no previous knowledge of the craft to simple techniques for creative home picture-framing.” (Catalogue)

 

 

If you would like further information please contact the Prosearch team at the library. We can help you find information across a range of perspectives and resources. All enquiries are treated in confidence.

 

Over the edge: an interview with a city abseiler. Part 2

Linda

Last week, in Part 1 of our look at Te Whanganui-a-Tara’s abseilers, we talked to  Anaru Kerei and Beth Dugdale of Wellington Abseiling Maintenance (WAM) about their business.

This week we profile a former employee, Enzo Fantone, whose passion for climbing led him to undertake an abseiling course prior to finding work with WAM.

Photo courtesy of Enzo Fantone

Enzo Fantone loves to climb.  The 23 year old Frenchman came to Aotearoa on a working visa at the beginning of 2023.  He was picking fruit in Central Otago when a casual offer to go climbing introduced him to a sport that immediately hooked him.

“I’ve always been attracted to outdoor activities.  What I like about climbing is, first, the social abilities you develop.  Climbing is just the moment where you take time to understand the other.  It’s also really important because you have life between your hands so you have to be clear. You have to be 100 percent transparent in the way you talk and the way you understand the other.

“Then there is this body awareness that I really like too.  It’s a nice sport because its slow.  You don’t have to go fast.  It’s about one move after the other.  It’s a type of meditation when I go on the wall.

“It’s like playing chess on the rock.  And you’ve got four different points, and you place them in a different way.  And I think I really like this fact that you don’t have to rush.  You’ve got all the time you want and it’s just you, the rock and the person belaying you.”

On a climb one day Enzo “met this guy and he was like, in full gear, and looking really professional.  I started talking to him and I asked him what he did for a living.  He told me he was abseiling and was based in Christchurch.  We just started talking and I was fascinated by how much knowledge he had on climbing, through abseiling.”

“I was like “Oh, I want to get better at that”.  I want to get better at climbing and I want to explore also the rope access.  And also, getting paid for that is even better.”

When the fruit picking finished Enzo made his way north to Wellington, working hospitality jobs along the way, but still with a thought of how he could turn his passion for climbing into outdoor work.

Exploring Wellington’s CBD, he spotted a sign with an abseiler. Feeling he had nothing to lose by making enquiries about possible work opportunities, Enzo was fortunate to have the door answered by Anaru Kerei, owner of Wellington Abseiling Maintenance (WAM).

Image provided courtesy of WAM

Enzo explains, “Here in New Zealand you have IRATA.  It’s like a course that is possible to do everywhere in the world.  With IRATA you can work everywhere in the world.  When Anaru told me that I was like “Alright, I’m going to look for that”.  He told me about this course place that is based in Plimmerton – TARA”.

“They were offering a course that was costing $2400, so that’s a pretty big amount.  I really wanted to invest that type of money to try changing my way of living.  I’ve been travelling for five years and stopped studying at 18.  I’ve got hospitality experience so it was my gateway to the world, to earn money.  But it was also a place where I got a little bit stuck because it’s like the only big knowledge that I got.  So everywhere in the world where I was travelling, my source of revenue was hospitality.  I didn’t feel like I wanted to keep going in this way.  I realised I didn’t want to live this life forever”.

Enrolling in TARA’s Level 1 Rope Access Technician course Enzo learned “… how to be safe on a rope, how to go up, how to go down.  You learn [about] the specificity of the forces, all the angles you can do with your rope.  What’s bad for the ropes, what’s good for them.  Just a big aspect of being at heights and safe.”  After completing the week long course, Enzo returned to WAM.

“The first day I met Anaru I asked, “Are you searching for workers?” and he was like “Yeah, we’re a bit short of workers at the moment” (with two workers overseas on extended stays).

“So I think I was kind of a replacement for WAM.  A little bit shortened time.  So I ask him “If I did the course would you employ me after that?”  And he was like “Yeah, if you do the course I will definitely employ you and we will talk about it”.  I was quite happy when he told me that.  So I did the course at the beginning of August, finished on the 11th and began with WAM on the 14th”.

 WCL: Is this stage one of an ongoing qualification?

Enzo: It is. IRATA have a system of three different levels.  You’ve got level one.  That’s like dipping your toes.  Then if you want to pass your level two, you need to have a year of work in rope access, plus one thousand hours.

 WCL: So it’s like an apprenticeship?

Enzo: Yes, it’s definitely like that.  From what I know about Level 2 it’s like knowing a bit more about how to rescue people.  The more you go higher, the more you go on level 2, level 3, the more knowledge you will have for rescuing people in different cases.

 WCL: Are you going to go for your thousand hours?

Enzo: Oh yeah.

 WCL: You won’t be doing all that in your time here, so is the work you are doing now laying a base for when you return to France?

Enzo: I’ve got a plan when I go back to France, in May.  I’m going to work taking care of the trekking path where I live, in the French Alps.  They need an abseiler.  Basically what we’re going to do is like rigging from trees and taking care of the path, making sure that everything is safe in the mountain area.  I’m happy to discover this part of abseiling because it’s in nature.  It’s like different step.

When I started abseiling I was like “Oh wow! You can do a job that you like and it’s outdoors.  That’s cool!”  The next one is to do a job that I like, that’s in nature.  So it’s getting closer to climbing.  And yeah, I’m definitely going to go deeper into abseiling.

 WCL: Is this volunteer work or a paid position?

Enzo: It’s a paid position.  It’s like communal work.  And I think we’re working four days a week and it’s a team of ten people.  It goes from May through to September-October.

 WCL: Then what happens in the off season?  Would you travel or look at working a contract in another country?

Enzo: My plan as far as I can see, is to do this next summer in France.  Then I would like to do some more diverse work in abseiling.  And try to catch some good contracts.  I would like to travel a bit more with this work.  It is definitely an easy way to make money and travel and do something I like.

I also realise that, with the people I met lately in Wellington, how good it is to be invested in ecology. I would like to, later, keep doing abseiling but being more meaningful to the planet.  And do also work that I like, but also with value, with a meaning behind it.  Not just doing a job for earning money but being fulfilled in a way of being like “Oh, that was a nice day, I was outside.  I did physical exercise”

 WCL: Are you required to renew your qualifications every couple of years or will you need to do refresher courses?

Enzo: From what I remember, every three years if you don’t pass any new level, you need to do a refresh.  Because rules are changing quite often.  So yeah, every three years, if you didn’t upgrade your level of IRATA you need to do a refresh.  But if you do a course in between that, I think it’s all good.

Enzo a work above the Wellington CBD. Photo courtesy of WAM

WCL: What’s the tallest building you’ve been up?

Enzo: I would say the tallest building is 16 floors.  You do three metres per floor so it would be 50 metres.

WCL: What’s it like?  Tell me, as someone who doesn’t have a head for heights

Enzo: Actually when I go on high buildings like this I am always a bit scared.

WCL: But that’s a good thing, isn’t it?

Enzo: Yeah definitely.  I think it’s always scary when you arrive at a new building and it’s also scary to be trusting in the equipment.  People tell you “This is working, this is going to save your life” but in a human perspective you’re like, “You tell me this is going to save my life but I didn’t see that it can save my life”.

“You’ve got always this adrenaline coming through your body when you go to the edge and you go “That’s pretty high” 

Going to the edge is like, not always the hardest part, but the thing that you need to improve because sometime you go to the edge with a bucket of paint or a bucket of water and soap so you need to make it clean.  At the same time it’s like the scariest moment of your day.

Yeah, it is always scary to go for the first time of the day through the other side but it’s a nice feeling.  I like it.

Going over the edge. Photo courtesy of Enzo Fantone

WCL: What do you like about working for WAM?

Enzo: It is just like a great, small business.  A family business.  And Anaru is just an amazing human.  He understands everyone in the business.  He made it a place where everyone feel good.  It’s like a second home.  It’s just great.  I think he did a really nice picking of employees in the business.  He’s got a really good team.  Everyday at work is always different and always good.  There’s younger people and older people, it’s a good range between 19 and 35.  So everyone is understanding of each other, because everyone is always in a happy vibe.  Everyone is carrying each other.

It’s also great because most of the time we work in teams of two.  So it’s really nice if you want to start knowing someone.  One day you are on a job with someone and the next day you are on another job with another person. It’s nice to get to know each one of them through the days and through the weeks.

Also Beth is working with Anaru and she’s like really, really calm and peaceful and bringing something really nice to WAM.

There are two women working there – Beth and Lynette.  I really like what they bring to WAM.

WCL: Do you think abseiling is perceived as a male occupation? 

Enzo: I think women don’t see it particularly as a career choice but at the same time I understand that in this world, this tradie world, [it] is really masculine.  Sometimes it can be hard for a woman to say alright “I’m going to step into this world and make it happen for me”.  [Of his colleague, Lynette] “I think it’s good that she got the courage to start in abseiling. She impress me so much”.

WCL:  It also means WAM have given her that environment in which to develop and that says a lot about them and their culture.

Enzo: I would say that WAM is really open minded.  And they give a chance to people.  And everyone is so natural.  You don’t have that hard culture of tradie.  It’s just a good place where everyone feels good and talks about everything.  Like when you arrive in the morning, there’s always small talk and it’s like a family.  It’s really great like that.

WCL: Would you recommend this as a job to a someone else who might be wondering if this is the right thing for them?

Enzo: I think so, yeah.

I think this is a shortcut to a really nice job for people [like me] who left school early and don’t know what they want to do.  I think abseiling is really nice because it’s so diverse.  There are so many different jobs through abseiling and yeah, it’s just great… The more I’m going to travel, the more I’m going to spread this thing of “Oh, you don’t know what to do?  You can do this.  It’s great”

“Always since I started climbing I try to involve as much people into climbing.  I’m going to do the same with abseiling.  Definitely”.

A hard day in the office. Photo courtesy of Enzo Fantone

WCL would like to thank Enzo for his input into this blog piece along with the contribution of images.

For some library resources on climbing, see our list below.


Gripped: the climbing magazine (Available via the online platform Libby)
Gripped offers the international world of climbing through the highest quality journalism and incredible pictures

 

 

 

Vertical life (Available via the online platform Libby)
Vertical life is a climbing magazine in Australasia.  At Vertical life we love climbing, be it beanied bouldering, clip up sport climbing, old school daddy tradding, big-wall suffering, alpine extremism, spandex clad competition climbing, desperate times call for desperate measures buildering, the lot – if it involves monkey business we will cover it

 

 

 

Climbing : from gym to crag : building skills for real rock / Lewis, S. Peter
“This work aims to help indoor climbers safely make the transition from a controlled climbing environment, which requires few technical skills and presents no objective dangers, to the outdoor environment, where the risks and rewards require a well-honed set of basic skills and awareness.” (Catalogue)

 

Climbing : training for peak performance / Soles, Clyde
“*Climbing exercises to build strength, endurance, flexibility, and aerobic fitness
*Up-to-date nutritional information to power your climbing training
*Climbing fitness tips that prepares you both mentally and physically
Climbers at all levels benefit from working to build core strength, opening the door to higher levels of achievement. This important edition in the Mountaineers Outdoor Expert series covers everything you need to improve your climbing fitness in ways that takes your performance to the next level. There is even instruction on yoga, Pilates, and herbal supplements, as well as a section on core training. Climbing: Training for Peak Performance also contains information about rehabilitation after an injury, plus several new training programs.” (Adapted from Catalogue)

Climbing manual : the essential guide to rock climbing / Shepherd, Nigel
“The Haynes Climbing Manual is a thoroughly modern introduction to this growing adventure sport, written by an experienced mountain guide, photographer and author. From getting started with equipment, clothing, fitness and basic skills through to advanced techniques and coping with tricky situations, this manual is packed with ……” (Catalogue)

 

The complete book of knots & ropework / Fry, Eric C.
“This guide demonstrates, step-by-step, how to tie 95 knots, hitches, plaits, bends, rope and wire splices, sennits and decorative ropework mats that should be useful to yachtsman and other outdoor sports enthusiasts. The nature of the rope and the lay are explained and uses suggested for each knot.” (Catalogue)

 

 

The science of climbing training : an evidence-based guide to improving your climbing performance / Consuegra, Sergio
“In The Science of Climbing Training, top Spanish climbing coach Sergio Consuegra provides an evidence-based approach to training for climbing. It is designed to help us improve climbing performance, whether we’re taking the next step in our training as we work towards our project, or if we’re a coach looking to optimise our athletes’ training”– Provided by publisher.” (Catalogue)

 

If you need more information please contact the Prosearch team at the library.  We can help you find information across a range of perspectives and resources.  All enquiries are treated in confidence.

Over the edge: an interview with a city abseiling business. Part 1

Linda

If you work in an office building in Wellington’s CBD you’ve probably seen them:  the guys who appear at the window, high above street level, suspended on ropes with squeegee in hand and bucket hanging off their harness.

The capital’s high rise window cleaners are a specialist group.  It takes nerve and a good head for heights, along with a conscientious concern for health and safety to abseil down a wall of concrete and glass, cleaning and maintaining as they go.  Then there’s the challenges brought about by the capital’s variable weather.

In this two part blog we delve deeper into what it takes to be one of those abseilers, interviewing Anaru Kerei and Beth Dugdale, directors of Wellington Abseiling Maintenance (WAM) along with a former WAM employee, Enzo Fantone.

Anaru Kerei, director of Wellington Abseiling Maintenance, at work on a city building. Photo courtesy of WAM

WCL:  Anaru, tell us a little about your background, your qualifications and your years in the industry.  How did you get started in abseiling?

Anaru:  My father owned a telecommunications rigging company so we used to build cell phone towers.  Me and my friends used to go out with him during the [school] holidays and help him work on the weekends.  From [age] 16 we were building 80 metre wind measuring towers out in Featherston.  Eventually with telecommunications, because of the way we use data now, they had to go onto high-rise buildings [and] we had to abseil to get there.  We naturally progressed from building towers to coming into town to put antennas on buildings.

Eventually I jumped into another abseil company where I learnt about the different aspects of abseil.

A lot of it was self-taught.  There’s a lot of “can-do” attitude in abseil.  So we just had to get out there and learn as much as we could. By working for a few different people and learning how they did things and learning how we wanted to do things.

WCL: Have you formalised that now with training and qualifications?  You mention your staff are all IRATA trained.

Anaru: IRATA training is purely a rope access qualification and that’s the only formal qualification that they have.

Beth:  They are like jack of all trades on ropes.  There’s a qualification for the rope access getting down the building but everything that you perform on the rope, it’s a learn as you go situation.

Even window cleaning – there’s an art to that that’s very underrated.

Anaru: Yeah, it’s under-appreciated.  I think one of the hardest things to do on ropes, to clean windows, because if the building has 800 windows and you get one wrong, there’s a chance you will need to go back and fix it. The expectation on window cleaning is huge.

Beth: We did a furniture removal from an apartment building in Oriental Bay.  A lady couldn’t get her couch out of her apartment and it had to be abseiled down the building.

Anaru:   It was only about five stories up.  We had to actually take the window out to get the couch out because they couldn’t get it through the door.

But we try to train our staff as much as we can.  Our staff are full-time and we need to find work for them to do when it’s raining so we try and train them on wet days with the different scopes of work we do.

We run teams of two, most of the time and we have one experienced and one green. We try and cycle the people around so they all get to learn from each other.

Beth:  It’s a good buddy system, we do send them on specialised courses. We put them through EWP – Elevated Work Platform training course, which they get a certificate for.  We also put them through an asbestos awareness training course, because there’s a lot of that around on the exterior of buildings.

And of course, first aid.  They all have their IRATA log book back at the office and get them signed so they can progress through their levels.

WCL: Why set up your own business and employ a team of people?

Anaru:  I always knew I wanted to be self-employed. I didn’t like working for other people and how they were doing things so we decided to do it ourselves.

Our philosophy is to employ good people and to teach them how to abseil.  You can teach just about anyone that’s willing, to abseil.  Or to do the work on the tools, but it’s very hard to train someone to have the right attitude.

I just want good people.  We want good people around us.  Good honest people.

Beth:  I’d say we’ve curated quite a unique and special team.  We’ve got a really professional and polite team.  A lot of the feedback we get from our customers is about how polite our team are.  We’re going into offices, and sometimes residential apartments, they’re always well presented, they’re tactful.  It’s really important how people come across when we interview them.

Anaru: Yeah, it is important for us.  We want to enjoy our time at work and you’re not going to enjoy it if you don’t enjoy the people you are working with. 

I was at the marae with all my whanau recently and I think a lot of it comes from how my family work on the marae.  That’s how I want my business to run.  Because they’re always looking ahead and doing everything they can do to help everyone, just trying to make it as easy as possible and as welcoming as possible. That’s a huge part of how I run a business and I didn’t really realise I did that because it just happens.  It’s natural.  It’s how I was brought up.  So that’s how we do things.

WCL: How big is your team?

Beth: Currently, with Enzo, there’s thirteen of us.  We’ve got three subcontractors and the rest are full time employees.

WCL: How hard is it to find the right people?

 Anaru: We’ve been lucky.  Because I’ve been in the industry for so long I know quite a few good people, or like Enzo, just turn up at the office and ask for a job. As our team grows, the network grows and we’ve recently had quite a few enquiries about work.

Beth:  We are visa accredited.  We have Lynette on the team.  She’s from Papua New Guinea, so she’s working towards her residency under us.  Although we are visa accredited we get really excited about being able to offer job opportunities to people and to young people in Wellington as well.  That’s a really cool thing to be able to do.  We’re really proud of that.  We definitely try to reach out locally, or through word of mouth.

WCL:  You mention Lynette.  How many women do you have?  Is she a rarity?

Beth:  I would say, yeah, there aren’t many females in the abseil industry so it’s always awesome when you get one apply.

[An earlier blog post on Women in trades may interest readers]

WCL: Is that because it’s seen as risky or macho?

Beth:  I don’t think there’s enough exposure to a career pathway.  I don’t think people look at it and [wonder] “Oh gosh, could I do that?  How long could I do that for?  Is it just going to be for a summer or is it something I could progress in?”

So we have a career progression chart we give people in their induction pack when they first start. It just shows that they can go from being a trainee rope technician all the way through to an operations manager.  We can take them through various avenues to teach them more the administration side, looking at how jobs are broken down and how they’re quoted and all sorts of stuff.  So they can actually see “I could stick with these people”.

WCL: You’re prepared to develop the right people?

Anaru:  We set aside a training allowance, per employee, per year, plus we pay for their time to do it.  It doesn’t have to necessarily be an abseil ticket.  If they want to learn something that’s going to help the business and progress their career then we will sort that out for them.

WCL:  Aside from a head for heights, what other qualities do people need?

Anaru:  Obviously someone who is adventurous and gets bored quickly.  Because people who get bored quickly learn quite quickly as well.  They’ll dive into one thing get passionate about it and then they’ll want to learn something else.  And I normally find that they’re the best abseilers because they’re always curious, always willing to learn.  That’s the sort of attitude we need because we are doing a wide scope of work.  So being able to take all that information in and being able to apply it properly is quite difficult.

A WAM employee on the job. Photo courtesy of Enzo Fantone

WCL You mention before about the weather providing you with down days to do training.  This is Wellington.  At what point do you assess a situation and think “No we won’t be working today”?

Anaru:  We leave it up to the staff.  It’s important for them to make sure they know when they can and can’t abseil. Obviously when it’s too windy I’ll say “Nope, you’re not getting on the ropes today” but it’s up to them to do their own risk assessment.

Beth:  There are workarounds.  You’d be surprised how few days we have to say “No. No-one can work today”.  Often there are a few jobs on the go and if there’s a nor’westerly then the southeast face is sheltered.

Anaru:  Or sheltered by nearby buildings.  Or there’s work outside Wellington we can pick up. We’ve got roof work as well.  There’s a difference between being too windy to be on a roof and too windy to be abseiling.

WCL: Do you also do emergency, safety, security work when it comes to roofs?

Anaru: We do emergency work.  If a flashing is going to blow off or something is going to come down and hurt somebody then we will look at it, if we can do it safely we will.

Beth:  Even just getting up there for an inspection puts people’s minds at ease.

Anaru:  It’s safer for us to get out there with ropes and put a couple of screws into something or whatever it takes to make sure its secure

WCL:  Do you still get scared?

Anaru:  Oh yeah. As I get older the fear definitely affects me more.  Because I haven’t been on the ropes much this year I’m more cautious about how I’m doing things.

WCL: Isn’t that a good thing?

Anaru:  If you’re not scared then you shouldn’t be on the rope.  You shouldn’t be an abseiler, because people like that will take way more unnecessary risks.

Beth:  You can’t get complacent.

Beth:  People often say “Isn’t it so scary?  Don’t you feel scared to do it?”  But Anaru said to me once, he feels safer on the ropes with someone he trusts one hundred percent than he would on a building site with 200 people with power tools. So in terms of accidents on the job, touch wood, there are very few.  You’re with that one person you trust, and they have your back, so there’s that culture as well.

Anaru:  It’s important to note that in abseil there’s not that many accidents.  What we are doing … people think it’s high risk, and it is high risk, but we have multiple safety systems in place so the likelihood of an accident is so low

We try to make safety as practical as possible.

WCL: You have to be adaptable and read the situation?

Anaru:  Yeah. I need someone that has the capability to deeply understand rope access, not just think they do.

Beth:  It’s quite nuanced.  You have to have initiative.

Logo provided courtesy of WAM

WCL Do you advertise?  Do you tender for maintenance contracts?  How do you get work?

Beth: We do invest in good sign writing on our vehicles that leads to a decent amount of work. There’s other work where people come directly to us.  We do have a website and that’s been a pretty good investment. Work comes through both of our networks. 17 years of hairdressing before I jumped on board to help Anaru with the office has given me a varied network.

We take a lot of pride looking after our clients and our stakeholders.

We go around at least once or twice a year and we take morning tea to our clients, sit down and update them on our goals and vision. We also ask what we can do better, it’s important to get feedback from customers. Normally a cake gets people talking. We also have a capability statement that we print out for new customers.

One of the WAM team at work. Photo courtesy of Enzo Fantone

A lot of people think abseil = window cleaning.  They don’t also know we can do glazing, painting, leak repairs, tiling, concrete repair, any issue with a high rise building we have repaired. 

So it’s good to have that face time to explain that, they really appreciate it.  That’s what sets us apart, that we’re just not on the other end of the email but we really try to make that effort to go and give people our time.

Anaru:  At this stage in our business, because of the size of it, I’m still over everything, so our customers know that I’m going to be directly involved in every job.   I’m always looking up at all my customers’ buildings, looking for things that need to be fixed.  And if we fix a leak, we follow up to make sure that it is fixed.  Because we care about what we’re doing.

Enzo walked in the door at the perfect time because we had a staff member going on a three month holiday and that worked out really well because he was looking for three months work.

Which is a bit risky for a business, to take someone on for a short period of time because you are literally just training that person [only to have them move on].

But I took him on a job, and I was watching how he did things, and I knew he was going to be able to do it in the time scale we had.

WCL:  Speaking of Enzo, his first day on the job wasn’t without incident.  Would you like to tell us about the water bottle and cherry picker and what was learned from that?

Anaru:  I was working up in the cherry picker because we were washing a building and Enzo put his drink bottle on the leg of it.  A cherry picker has legs that go out to stabilize and level it before we go up.  When we had to move it, the leg came in and crushed the drink bottle.  The drink bottle didn’t break at all, the drink bottle was fine, but it crushed the hydraulic lines on the cherry picker and hydraulic oil went everywhere.  I looked down at him and thought “What have I done?  What have I hired? Have I made a mistake?”

With stuff like that I’ve got to look at it and be like “Well, I never thought to tell him not to do that”.  It was his first day and he would have been under pressure, he would have been nervous.  These mistakes happen and it’s about making sure we include it in our health and safety systems.

Beth:  We say there’s no stupid questions because if someone feels like they are in an environment where they are too scared to ask you something then that’s unsafe as well.  That’s when accidents happen.

We’ve got him a replacement drink bottle for his leaving gift.

Anaru:  We look after each other, we trust each other.  I said to the team this morning that if you ever need to talk about anything it’s an open-door policy here.  You know you can say whatever you want and we will listen and implement whatever has to be implemented to make it work. We’re always trying to do that as much as we can.

WCL:  You started your business in 2019.  Then came Covid.  How were you impacted?

Anaru:  At the time it was only just me and one other.  We were really lucky with the whole Covid thing because we landed a huge job and got it 80 percent finished before the lockdown.  That carried us through without any real dramas.

There was all the PPE and all the Health and Safety stuff we needed to buy, that wasn’t really allowed for in any pricing but we got lucky.  Lockdowns gave us time to sit and reflect about what we wanted.

Beth:  The impact was more around keeping our staff safe going in and out of residential apartment buildings, masking up, sanitising everything.

WCL: Did you apply for the subsidies?

Beth:  Yeah we did, later on.  We initially thought we might be able to work during lockdowns but we weren’t essential workers.  So we got the subsidies and that definitely helped.

WCL:  Can you share your long term vision for the company with us?

Anaru:  We want to grow, but we are very careful about growth because of the impact it has on everything.  We’ve grown a little bit this year.

Going forward we are trying to grow inward and make sure our people are learning and doing as much as they can for their growth and ours.

We are starting up a new roofing business.  We’re going to get licensed for membrane roofs. If we have good people who want to start their own businesses we will help them as a subsidiary of WAM.  We haven’t got it all worked out yet, but I think it’s better, once you get to a certain size, to have one person with a bit of skin in the game. You retain quality as you grow.

If you have a smaller subsidiary and the guy at the top is only managing six to eight staff, he’s got a way better chance of making sure the people coming through are given enough time to learn.

Beth:  People feel a bit more looked after and special in those kinds of teams, rather than getting lost in a big thing.  We try and do lots of little touches for the team.  There’s a bonus each month if we meet our target, we bring the doggies and the kids during the school holidays. I always like to bring snacks and treats.  I think that goes a long way.

Anaru:  There’s a lot of good interactions between our staff, they’re really supportive of each other, they’re always looking out for each other.

Anaru:  We just want to hold on to that as much as we can.  The more numbers you get the harder it is to hold on to.  But it can be done.  That’s another reason why we want the subsidiaries, so the person at the top can make sure they’re looking after their culture and if they’ve got skin in the game, it’s better for everyone involved with that subsidiary, because they know the person at the top is getting something from it.

The WAM team. Photo courtesy of Enzo Fantone

WCL:  The culture of caring is definitely overlooked in many businesses.

Beth:  I started a Facebook and Instagram page and that wasn’t with the intention of gaining commercial abseiling customers because I don’t think they would look on social media for an abseiling company.  It was with the intention of showing “Hey, we’re a really good team”.  That’s what an employee would look for – they would look on Instagram or Facebook and think “Do I want to work for these people?” So we post bits now and then.  [The team] enjoy taking photos and sharing them.

Beth:  We’ve got two children and they asked that the team wear pink shirts and abseil in Wellington on Pink shirt day, the anti-bullying campaign.  Our daughter changed the sign from “Men working above” to “Persons working above”.  Little things like that go a really long way.

WCL:  What would you say to someone thinking this might be a suitable work choice?

Anaru:  If you’re thinking about getting into abseil just make sure you’re passionate about it because it can be seen when you walk through the door.  Make sure it’s something you want to do.

Beth:  I would say there is a career pathway there.  It doesn’t have to be something you think “Oh I’m going to do this for a year maybe, or a gap year or to fill in time”.  There can be steps to a career and that it is quite multi-faceted and it can take you into management positions.

Anaru:  Or offshore, overseas.

Beth:  The qualifications are internationally recognised so there’s opportunity there.

Anaru:  We want to try and get into a career expo and one of my long term goals is to try and get some sort of apprenticeship going somehow with abseil to try and formalise it a bit more because I think it’s important for the industry.

Anaru:  People were asking me at the weekend why I do it as well, and I think it’s like the fun-est trade job available.  Which is why most people get into it, because they are excited by it.

WCL: Why Wellington?

Anaru “It’s cool being in Wellington.  I grew up here and Mum’s family are from here.  We went to Wellington Zoo [with our kids] and there are some pieces of art done by one of my cousins.

There’s photos of my uncle in the Reserve Bank and there’s influences from my family around Wellington so it’s nice being there and seeing that.

Seeing my cousin’s art around the place. Another cousin owns a moving business.  My sister and her partner run a substantial bread run business.  A lot of my family and friends are self-employed and doing well.  They’re still connected with their Maoridom but they also run businesses. To get that balance right is so hard, I draw a lot of inspiration from them, knowing that they’re doing that, I’m proud that my family is putting a lot of positive reinforcement out there for Maori.

WCL would like to thank Anaru and Beth for their time and cooperation with this interview.  Next week we present an interview with former employee Enzo Fantone, and look at his journey into abseiling.

If you would like to learn more about the business concepts discussed in this piece have a look at these resources held by Wellington City Libraries.

The retention revolution : 7 surprising (and very human!) ways to keep employees connected to your company / Keswin, Erica
“Build a business with relationships at the center, and you will seize the competitive edge in today’s volatile job/or talent market.” (Catalogue)

 

 

Team habits : how small actions lead to extraordinary results / Gilkey, Charlie
“Charlie Gilkey, an internationally known thought leader on productivity, planning, strategy, and leadership for creative people, explains how changing our team’s habits can change our company’s culture since that culture is always just an aggregation of its various teams’ work habits.
We all know how important habits are for personal effectiveness, success, and happiness. We can apply many of the same principles and insights about personal habits to our teams. When we do, not only do we accrue the personal benefits for ourselves, but we accrue them with and for our team. ” (Adapted from Catalogue)

The power of company culture : how any business can build a culture that improves productivity, performance and profits / Dyer, Chris
“Create and maintain an exceptional company culture to improve engagement, productivity, performance and profits. Structured around the seven pillars of culture success, The Power of Company Culture shows how to develop a company culture that improves productivity, performance, staff retention, company reputation and profits.” (Catalogue)

 

Work-based learning : bridging knowledge and action in the workplace / Raelin, Joseph A.
“Work-based learning is Joe Raelin’s unique way of incorporating a number of action strategies – such as action learning, action science, and communities of practice – into a comprehensive framework to help people learn collectively with others. In this thoroughly updated and revised edition, he demonstrates how to engage our reflective powers to challenge those taken-for-granted assumptions that unwittingly hold us back from questioning standard ways of operating!” (Adapted from Catalogue)

Employee experience strategy : design an effective EX strategy to improve employee performance and drive business results / Whitter, Ben
“Designing and implementing an exceptional employee experience strategy is crucial for business success. From a leading figure in the EX field, this book provides everything needed to succeed. Employee Experience Strategy explains how to assess the needs of the organization and its employees, define and build an effective employee experience (EX) strategy and embed it successfully in the business… this is an essential book for all senior talent professionals needing to build, embed and sustain an effective EX strategy.” (Adapted from Catalogue)

Experience, inc. : why companies that uncover purpose, create connection, and celebrate their people will triumph / Popelka, Jill
“The “worker-first experience” is not just a new trend, but the evolution of what it means to work and be part of an organization, and recent power shifts within it. What can leaders, managers, and CHROs, do to position their companies to thrive in the new world? There are many issues for the C-Suiter to navigate — yet they’re all united by the need to focus on employee – human — experience. A flexible, versatile workforce will help your business overcome current challenges and define your future. The successful organizations are making the employee experience more central. This book will give you, the leader, insights about how to think about and outfit your company, in a way that works for your firm, your sector, and your industry” (Catalogue)

Above the line : how to create a company culture that engages employees, delights customers and delivers results / Henderson, Michael
“Above the Line… offers all leaders a handbook for leveraging an organisation’s culture to engage staff, increase customer satisfaction and streamline business performance. A ground-breaking work, this book reveals what it takes to achieve optimum results from your organisational culture without employing the use of external consultants. This organic, in-house approach to company culture transformation saves both time and money. Step-by-step, author Michael Henderson illustrates how to create a culture in which employees and leaders delight those outside the company-customers, shareholder, employees’ families, suppliers and the board of directors-and anyone else who may benefit from an association with the organisation.” (Adapted from Catalogue)

Skin in the game : hidden asymmetries of daily life / Taleb, Nassim Nicholas
“In his inimitable, pugnacious style, Nassim Nicholas Taleb shows that skin in the game applies to all aspects of our lives. It’s about having something to lose and taking a risk. Citizens, lab experimenters, artisans, political activists and hedge fund traders all have skin in the game. Policy wonks, corporate executives, theoreticians, bankers and most journalists don’t. As Taleb says, “The symmetry of skin in the game is a simple rule that’s necessary for fairness and justice, and the ultimate BS-buster,” and “Never trust anyone who doesn’t have skin in the game. Without it, fools and crooks will benefit, and their mistakes will never come back to haunt them”.” (Adapted from Catalogue)

Bids, tenders & proposals : winning business through best practice / Lewis, Harold
“Expert guidance on the entire process of tendering in the three key areas of public sector procurement, contracts for private sector clients and applications for research funding.” (Catalogue)

 

 

Tendering and contracting guidelines / Taee, Ahkam AL
“This book is explained and covered, but not limited, the followings; – The content of the tender invitation package. – How to evaluate the bids technically and commercially. – The Concepts of a contract. – The elements of enforceable contract. – Types of Contracts. – Allocating liability and risk in contracts. – The Contract Management tasks and responsibilities. – Explain FIDIC contract forms. – Discuss the risk spectrum in construction. – Gives in Chapter 3, seven attachments form samples of different materials needed in contracts. The book is useful tool to whom are working in supply chain management and contracts departments, this book has been prepared to provide practical guidance in general terms in relation to various public services, it is not a legal textbook but practical guidance tool for business. (Catalogue)

If you need more information please contact the Prosearch team at the library.  We can help you find information across a range of perspectives and resources.  All enquiries are treated in confidence.